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Kirk Gibson as Manager
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sb24ws2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jethawker wrote:
Is a leader born or made? I believe great leaders are born. Itís what they do. Regardless of their role or position they make good stuff happen. Soon, people start believing and the aura smells success. Winning breeds winners and leaders breed leaders.


Studying this idea right now in my doctoral program. There is ample evidence to show otherwise. Leadership is not an innate trait that only some people possess. Leadership DNA is a myth. This is from my instructor, which mirrors the overwhelming opinion in leadership schools and theories:

Quote:
There is no such thing as a natural ability to lead that exists within some of us while remaining absent in others. A closer examination of those leaders we often hold in high regard, those we refer to as "born leaders", will reveal one common characteristic among all of them. They all have a burning desire to lead, to be influential, motivational, and take responsibility for themselves and others. What makes these leaders effective is not a natural ability; it is their desire to lead people, combined with a set of learned skills that they apply as leaders. Desire is the only must for a person to grow into a leader. They learned the rest of it. The desire to lead was the motivational ingredient that drove them to lead; the skills they learned along the way are what allowed them to lead people. Obviously there are some people with more of a natural ability to lead than others, but that does not mean a person cannot learn the skills necessary and hone them to the point of producing results.


The "Great Man Theory" has largely been debunked and is considered out-dated. Sorry for those not interested in this sort of thing, but it's near and dear to my heart.
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qudjy1
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The above post by sb... is the more apprpriate way to disagree with another member of our forum.
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TAP
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

qudjy1 wrote:
The above post by sb... is the more apprpriate way to disagree with another member of our forum.

With all due respect, your post is utter crap. You don't express a single interesting point or idea.

I kid, I kid! Laughing
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qudjy1
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAP wrote:
qudjy1 wrote:
The above post by sb... is the more apprpriate way to disagree with another member of our forum.

With all due respect, your post is utter crap. You don't express a single interesting point or idea.

I kid, I kid! Laughing


Laughing
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levski
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAP wrote:
qudjy1 wrote:
The above post by sb... is the more apprpriate way to disagree with another member of our forum.

With all due respect, your post is utter crap. You don't express a single interesting point or idea.

I kid, I kid! Laughing


You both should step into my office.
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Justin
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

levski wrote:
TAP wrote:
qudjy1 wrote:
The above post by sb... is the more apprpriate way to disagree with another member of our forum.

With all due respect, your post is utter crap. You don't express a single interesting point or idea.

I kid, I kid! Laughing


You both should step into my office.


and not FL? Laughing
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TAP
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

levski wrote:
TAP wrote:
qudjy1 wrote:
The above post by sb... is the more apprpriate way to disagree with another member of our forum.

With all due respect, your post is utter crap. You don't express a single interesting point or idea.

I kid, I kid! Laughing

You both should step into my office.

my date book's filled for the evening. Shocked

but thanks anyhow Laughing
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qudjy1
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pass.
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FatLeprechaun
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
With all due respect, your post was utter crap.


I think that should be my new trademark replacing "Mark my words."
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jethawker
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sb - I appreciate your take and expertise on Leadership and agree with what you said for the most part. I agree that leadership "is not an innate trait that only some people possess". I think everyone has it, like they have humor and anger traits. But to what degree? I think great leaders are born with that "burning desire" you quote and it is a "common characteristic"...but that a person's burning desire could be towards anything in life...leadership being just one. Those born with that burning desire towards leadership, with "more of a natural ability to lead than others" describes great leaders. Can anyone without that burning desire hone their skills to become better leaders? Yes. But be great leaders? I don't know.

Just my thoughts and I too find the study of leadership near and dear, sb. Thanks for making me rethink this. I think we're closer in agreement than not.

FL - no worries. I just think it's going to be interesting in the next 3-4 months to see how Gibby does. We're either going to be wondering how Kirk Gibson was able to turn this ballclub into winners when no one else could, or be left wondering who can manage these guys if Melvin, Hinch, and Gibson couldn't.

Cheers.
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dbacks watcher
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If with all the differimg leadership styles and approaches that the last 3 managers have this group of players doesn't produce results, then it is time to change players not managers. Some of that work should begin now.
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FatLeprechaun
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dbacks watcher wrote:
If with all the differimg leadership styles and approaches that the last 3 managers have this group of players doesn't produce results, then it is time to change players not managers. Some of that work should begin now.


But what's the definition of "produce results"? Melvin arguably produced results. The 2007 season was good, the 2008 season was ok (and great compared to 09 and 10). The team got off to a bad start in 2009 under Melvin, and I think it's been pointed out that the team had faced a brutal schedule when Melvin was fired.
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dbacks watcher
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pro sports is a results oriented business. Results are ultimately counted in wins and losses. Teams that win attract fans who buy tickets. Teams that lose also lose fans and sponsors therby lossing money.

Hope that's clear enough.
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YBC-Dog
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kirk Gibson's plan for transforming the Diamondbacks
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THE SHADOW
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn James Gammon died this weekend.

I was hoping he would get the next chance to manage these bunch of losers. Wink
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qudjy1
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought the losing was Hinch's fault.

If it takes time to turn things around - why did hinch get fired after only a year.



Players win games.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

qudjy1 wrote:
I thought the losing was Hinch's fault.

If it takes time to turn things around - why did hinch get fired after only a year.

Players win games.

window dressing?
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qudjy1
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAP wrote:
window dressing?


If you are talking about the managers role itself - i suppose its more than window dressing. But moving hinch (or any manager) out now for the sake of making a move before you have hired a full time GM - yeah - that's window dressing.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

qudjy1 wrote:
TAP wrote:
window dressing?

If you are talking about the managers role itself - i suppose its more than window dressing. But moving hinch (or any manager) out now for the sake of making a move before you have hired a full time GM - yeah - that's window dressing.

Item #2.
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qudjy1
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So - going by W/L - is Gibson the worst manager of all time?

He is 3/10 - a winning percentage of .231. Pretty bad manager.


Yes, small sample size, and maybe I'm trolling a little - but still - i think we are going to see pretty soon how ridiculous it was to think that AJ caused this mess.
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Oden
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oden wrote:
Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 11:24 am I fear that if they move Hinch out they'd replace him with an interim internal option - the aforementioned Gibson or Williams. When that proves to have no positive value, they're going to need to make some big changes in the off-season. That sucks when they're shy on valuable commodities that you're willing to trade. This team could have a couple of lean years ahead.


http://forum.diamondbacksbullpen.org/viewtopic.php?p=366839&highlight=gibson#366839

Change for the sake of change leads to more change.
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Dre
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

qudjy1 wrote:
So - going by W/L - is Gibson the worst manager of all time?

He is 3/10 - a winning percentage of .231. Pretty bad manager.


Yes, small sample size, and maybe I'm trolling a little - but still - i think we are going to see pretty soon how ridiculous it was to think that AJ caused this mess.


Without some improvement over Hinch's #s I don't see anyway that the team could justify keeping Gibson on for 2011. Am rooting for him obviously but what an awful start to his reign.
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David B
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's pretty evident that Hinch's firing had more to do with the feud between Hall and JB (and that Hinch was JB's guy) than any expectation that bringing in a new manager would greatly improve the team's record.
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qudjy1
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

David B wrote:
I think it's pretty evident that Hinch's firing had more to do with the feud between Hall and JB (and that Hinch was JB's guy) than any expectation that bringing in a new manager would greatly improve the team's record.


Why not just fire JB then - and wait for the next real GM to let him choose. Instead, you screw Gibson over.
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David B
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because Hinch is JBs guy, and an unorthodox choice in, ahem, "baseball circles" that Arizona wants to distance themselves from
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