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How the Diamondbacks got here... and where should they go?
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levski
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 10:01 pm    Post subject: How the Diamondbacks got here... and where should they go? Reply with quote

Nick Piecoro with a really good blog post, which deserves a thread of its own

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/NickPiecoro/84816

Quote:
The Diamondbacks are riding a five-game losing streak. They are winless through four games of this road trip through three NL West cities. Though it’s way too early to call it a make or break trip, it feels like it could be more of the latter than the former, especially with what looks like an impossibly difficult June schedule in front of them.

They’re 20-29, 8 1/2 games back in the division. What’s happened? Here’s a rundown.


Nick touches up on a lot of issues, emphasis being on "a lot". From the awful pen to the pinata "aces" to the inconsistent offense to the injuries, he's got it all covered. And it doesn't add up to a pretty picture, but we all know that.

So I want to use Nick's post to ask: how do you address all the issues he brings up? Have at it.
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levski
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll get it started: trade Adam LaRoche to the Angels, with Morales being out.
Dbacks can use some combo of Conor/Rusty at 1b until Allen is healthy.
LaRoche and a bunch of pap smears for the relievers help the Db equally.
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THE SHADOW
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Upton and Reynolds can stay. IPK is under control for a good while.

Everything else must go. Blow it up real good and start over.

Talk is payroll dropping to $65 million next year.

Next year you have the All-Star game so you will lose some but the die hards will stick around for that and you can sell that to sponsors.

2012 you better have your shit together because you have nothing to sell. So all trades and money saved you better be ready to put up or shut up in 2012.

No more excuses. Put together a decent marketing plan. Remember your in the baseball game and sell that.

"I root for the home team" would be nice. Get local celebs and mix in with fans throwing away their Yankee, Red Sox, Dodger gear for DBACKS stuff. Put together a program where a fan can bring in his old team stuff and get 50% off DBACK stuff. Win the fans back.

2012 is D-DAY folks if this organization isnt ready to compete they should all find something else to do.

I know I will be. Wink
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Jdub
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm convinced too.
Lets Marlin this mofo up!
Upton stays, IPK stays, Reynolds goes if we get a great offer.
EVERYTHING ELSE MUST GO!
2011 #1 pick! GO GO GO!
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thesidewinda
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well short-term, we should get decent prospects in the draft, we can sell K. Johnson and Laroche, and E. Byrnes money is coming off the books soon... but I think we should make a long-term plan,

For example, I know there are several "community programs" that the Dbacks organization has, but I think we should be focusing on the kids. I mean have the Dbacks players visit elementary schools in the offseason to give autographs and to get the kids involved early in the team. This should create a great fanbase longterm.

The stadium atmosphere should be better, how? .. getting a lot of people in it, I know winning gets fans to fill the seats, but instead of giving packages like 10 tickets for 130 bucks, there could be 2x1 nights, or "buy one ticket in may and get the same ticket or a upper-level ticket for a game in June". etc etc.. just to bring more fans to the stadium.

The Yankees spend a lot of money on "superstars" players, the A's develop players and the Dbacks? what do they do? (apart from losing) .. well, this team has no identity, I think we should develop players in the farm system but also in the majors, don't just give up on players like C. Quentin, player development at the big club should be a very important goal in the longterm plan.
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NJ-DBACKS-FAN
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2) we all kill the pen, but they whole staff as a whole has given up waaaay to many HR....

4) alot of people (team, FO, fans ect) hitched the 2010 dbacks wagon to BW17... that was our first mistake in 2010.... im not saying picking up his option was a mistake, we had to do it... just that all the eggs in that basket was the mistake

5) the O.... well he is right... hot streaks are short and the cold streaks are way to long and to many

6) i dont know what to say other that..... Confused

8 ) left field??,.... our left fielder who ever it is..... does he get at bats?
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Colt-Back
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) Upton and Kennedy as only surefire stayers, listen to offers for everyone else.

2) Blow up the bullpen and blow it up good.

3) Re-stock farm system through the good draft positions we will be in this year and next year as well as the prospects picked up in trades.

4) Have a clear financial plan and dont bullshit fans about increasing budgets, they'd rather hear the cold truth and deal with it.

5) Gear up for signicant drops in attendance and income. This team is on a steap decline and the FO should prepare for nothing other then that.
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CoJackFan
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trade Johnson, Drew, CoJack, Snyder, LaRoche and the entire bullpen. And one more thing, fire Hinch!
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Prosopis
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Number one would be fire Hinch. I dont think he ever belonged there.
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NJ-DBACKS-FAN
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CoJackFan wrote:
Trade Johnson, Drew, CoJack, Snyder, LaRoche and the entire bullpen. And one more thing, fire Hinch!


i like all of these guys going.... but drew goes who we got for ss?
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win the series make the playoffs
series record to date 11-19-3
april 11-12 | may 9-20 | june 11-16
july 7-17 | aug |sept/oct

im getting close to getting on the blow it up bus Sad
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dbackfanron
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know this won't happen, but the first thing to do is fire the GM and hire a new one to rebuild the team for 2012 and beyond.
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Colt-Back
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prosopis wrote:
Number one would be fire Hinch. I dont think he ever belonged there.


I assumed this was a given especially considering my signature ultimatum Very Happy
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azentropy
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Start by signing Willis....

https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/15053868943

He hasn't been good in a while, but can't be any worse the some of the others we have put putting out there and who knows...
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Oden
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hypothetical - Byrnes and Hinch are fired, they hire (insert your favorite names here) and the team continues to play exactly the same way. What do you do then? With supposed great motivators Gibson and Williams already on the staff and coaching these guys, who could come in and do a better job? I don't know, just asking.

The team needs to decide if they want to try to salvage this season. Obviously, the offense is one of the NL's best. If you want to trade for pitchers, you have to lose some of your offensive parts. To what end? You can't really afford to trade much O and that won't get you much P. LaRoche is one. About the only things they can try to do this season would be to make moves with expiring contracts or fire the coach and/or staff.

I fear that if they move Hinch out they'd replace him with an interim internal option - the aforementioned Gibson or Williams. When that proves to have no positive value, they're going to need to make some big changes in the off-season. That sucks when they're shy on valuable commodities that you're willing to trade. This team could have a couple of lean years ahead.
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tucsondbacksfan
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THE SHADOW wrote:
Upton and Reynolds can stay. IPK is under control for a good while.

Everything else must go. Blow it up real good and start over.

Talk is payroll dropping to $65 million next year.

Next year you have the All-Star game so you will lose some but the die hards will stick around for that and you can sell that to sponsors.

2012 you better have your shit together because you have nothing to sell. So all trades and money saved you better be ready to put up or shut up in 2012.

No more excuses. Put together a decent marketing plan. Remember your in the baseball game and sell that.

"I root for the home team" would be nice. Get local celebs and mix in with fans throwing away their Yankee, Red Sox, Dodger gear for DBACKS stuff. Put together a program where a fan can bring in his old team stuff and get 50% off DBACK stuff. Win the fans back.

2012 is D-DAY folks if this organization isnt ready to compete they should all find something else to do.

I know I will be. Wink


I agree with this plan. No halfassed attempts anymore. Have to have a well stocked minor system as well. Start from scratch.
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qudjy1
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oden wrote:
I fear that if they move Hinch out they'd replace him with an interim internal option - the aforementioned Gibson or Williams. When that proves to have no positive value, they're going to need to make some big changes in the off-season. That sucks when they're shy on valuable commodities that you're willing to trade. This team could have a couple of lean years ahead.


I agree with this.

Lets say its Grace for example. Forget that Grace has LESS experience managing than Hinch - I just think that Grace would have very little impact on the w/l record going forward. So then what.

I just think we have a bad mix of players - and this isnt going to work. Trade Haren, Trade Jackson, Trade everyone not named Upton, Kennedy, and Maybe MR, and get this farm team back right.

Then go out and overpay the best instructors / talent evaluators in the business. I bet for the price of one Eric Byrnes - you could revamp a staff that hasnt done much good scouting/developing young players unfortunately.
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qudjy1
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tucsondbacksfan wrote:
THE SHADOW wrote:
Upton and Reynolds can stay. IPK is under control for a good while.

Everything else must go. Blow it up real good and start over.

Talk is payroll dropping to $65 million next year.

Next year you have the All-Star game so you will lose some but the die hards will stick around for that and you can sell that to sponsors.

2012 you better have your shit together because you have nothing to sell. So all trades and money saved you better be ready to put up or shut up in 2012.

No more excuses. Put together a decent marketing plan. Remember your in the baseball game and sell that.

"I root for the home team" would be nice. Get local celebs and mix in with fans throwing away their Yankee, Red Sox, Dodger gear for DBACKS stuff. Put together a program where a fan can bring in his old team stuff and get 50% off DBACK stuff. Win the fans back.

2012 is D-DAY folks if this organization isnt ready to compete they should all find something else to do.

I know I will be. Wink


I agree with this plan. No halfassed attempts anymore. Have to have a well stocked minor system as well. Start from scratch.


I unfortunately agree too.
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Jdub
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did the Dbacks get here? Pitching and inconsistent offense.

Where should they go? Away.

I'm really tired of this crap. Curse my love of the Diamondbacks...

[edited for content]
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Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 31


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Oden
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's just a game.
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Jdub
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oden wrote:
It's just a game.


This doesn't piss you off?
They're getting killed. And even when they're winning, it doesn't matter. The Dbacks' bullpen just screws it up at the end. They just got swept twice, and the smart money says they're going to do pretty badly against the Dodgers too. The Dbacks pitching is historically bad.
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Leads/ties blown by the Diamondbacks bullpen in '10: 31


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Oden
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure it does, but I'm not going to say they should go fuck themselves. How about we take you down to the locker room right after a tough loss like this so you can tell them in person, "You guys suck. Go fuck yourselves." We can make it happen. I'll bring my camera. You bring your insurance card.
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Jdub
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These guys don't need me to tell them they suck. They know they suck. They can check BBRef, Fangraphs, whatever. It will all tell them the same thing. They suck. I don't need to reiterate it.

If you wanna pay for my gas to go to LA, I'll happily tell Qualls and Gutierrez to go fuck themselves. They've been horrible this year.

They don't need some random Dback fan a decade younger than them to tell them they're pitching like crap. They've been reminded enough.

If you didn't know, this is the internet. Most people vent their frustration here. I'm sick and tired of watching loss after loss, blown game after blown game. I'm not the first one to tell this team/the bullpen to go fuck themselves, and I definitely wont be the last. So why are you after me?
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Oden
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not after you. You can vent all you want, but do it without the insults. It's wrong and you know it. These professional ball players don't need some know-it-alls on a message board telling them to go F themselves just because they're losing. That's bullshit. Keep your venting under control.
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baldmaga
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jdub wrote:
Oden wrote:
It's just a game.


This doesn't piss you off?
We're getting killed. And even when we're winning, it doesn't matter. Our bullpen just screws it up at the end. We just got swept twice, and the smart money says we're going to do pretty badly against the Dodgers too. Our pitching is historically bad.


Not to nitpick, but maybe you are taking their failure a little too personally? I don't like it either, but these guys have spent their entire lives trying to get where they are. Guys like Gutierrez and Qualls were effective in the past, and the offense on average has been great this year, but lacking on this trip.

When you get off to a bad start, and then the piece of the puzzle that has been working starts to go into an expected fizzle, it does make things look hopeless. But a win would be a huge thing. They aren't going to lose the next 111 games.

Plus you always have to remember, nobody is making you watch the games, so if you need a break to cool off, maybe it's for the best. I started to really hate the team last season in August, so I just took a series off, and I was all better. (And by taking it off, I meant avoiding results and not coming on here.)

But we all deal with it in our own way, so if your best way is to come on here and start cussing out people who don't even know you, all the power to you.
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Jdub
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fine, but why don't you get after people who tell someone to FOAD, or Levski calling another board member a POS right after someone just was called out for calling Hall a POS? Or him calling someone a Nazi? Or saying they should have their children taken away? He gets a free pass because he's been here longer? Because he's "Levski being Levski"?

I'm not even talking about another board member. I'm saying Qualls and Gutierrez should go away... granted, in a rather not-so-nice way. I just don't want them on the Diamondbacks anymore. People have said worse things about Byrnes, Ortiz, and Moorad.

I'm fine with being called out for saying it. You're a Mod, you have the right. I'm just asking for fairness.
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