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Pac 10-Big 12 Rumors
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NJ-DBACKS-FAN
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NJ-DBACKS-FAN wrote:
misterx wrote:
CBS 4 in Denver reporting Utah and Colorado to make up six-team division in new P12
by JazzyUte on Jun 14, 2010 10:29 PM MDT in Football 1 comment

An interesting story developing out of Denver tonight. It suggests what we've all expected - Utah will be going to the Pacific Twelve.

More interesting, however, is the division breakdown based on their inside sources. They claim both Utah and Colorado will be a part of the South division, which includes SC, UCLA, Arizona State and Arizona. Making up the North would be Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Cal and Stanford.

Thoughts?

http://www.blocku.com/2010/6/14/1518569/cbs-4-in-denver-reporting-utah-and


boise cant be happpy


as i was driving today, i thought of what 2 teams the big 12 will add to get back to 12 teams....

first was TCU (no brainer) and that KILLS MNT WEST FOOTBALL!!.... Utah AND TCU leaving, even with Boise coming it is still a hit!!! and the other Big 12 team?? i have no idea who it could be??
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misterx
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan Beebe: "We're not looking to expand at all."

http://twitter.com/schadjoe/statuses/16238887029
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NJ-DBACKS-FAN
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

misterx wrote:
Dan Beebe: "We're not looking to expand at all."

http://twitter.com/schadjoe/statuses/16238887029


i call BS on that.... how can they have a championship game for all of these years and than not want to reap all of that extra $$$ once COl and NEB leave??
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XB3
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NJ-DBACKS-FAN wrote:
misterx wrote:
Dan Beebe: "We're not looking to expand at all."

http://twitter.com/schadjoe/statuses/16238887029


i call BS on that.... how can they have a championship game for all of these years and than not want to reap all of that extra $$$ once COl and NEB leave??

I agree, Beebe promised the moon and where is he going to get the revenue stream to pay what was promised. He saved the BIG-12 by caving into what Texas wanted (TV network), and then promised Coca-Cola in every water fountain to the rest. Adding TCU and Houston isn't going to come close to replacing Colorado and Nebraska.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

XB3 wrote:
NJ-DBACKS-FAN wrote:
misterx wrote:
Dan Beebe: "We're not looking to expand at all."

http://twitter.com/schadjoe/statuses/16238887029


i call BS on that.... how can they have a championship game for all of these years and than not want to reap all of that extra $$$ once COl and NEB leave??

I agree, Beebe promised the moon and where is he going to get the revenue stream to pay what was promised. He saved the BIG-12 by caving into what Texas wanted (TV network), and then promised Coca-Cola in every water fountain to the rest. Adding TCU and Houston isn't going to come close to replacing Colorado and Nebraska.


TCU is a good catch, but good luck finding the 12th
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dirtygary
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NJ-DBACKS-FAN wrote:
misterx wrote:
Dan Beebe: "We're not looking to expand at all."

http://twitter.com/schadjoe/statuses/16238887029


i call BS on that.... how can they have a championship game for all of these years and than not want to reap all of that extra $$$ once COl and NEB leave??

Conf Championship games haven't proven to be the boon that they are perceived to be, and the Big-12 is sacrificing that in their revised deal, but renegotiating the TV deal brings in immediate revenues. Even the bottom teams will double their annual dollars.

Either way, I'm cool with a Pac-12 divisional alignment if it means that UA/ASU remain with the LA schools.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dirtygary wrote:
NJ-DBACKS-FAN wrote:
misterx wrote:
Dan Beebe: "We're not looking to expand at all."

http://twitter.com/schadjoe/statuses/16238887029


i call BS on that.... how can they have a championship game for all of these years and than not want to reap all of that extra $$$ once COl and NEB leave??

Conf Championship games haven't proven to be the boon that they are perceived to be, and the Big-12 is sacrificing that in their revised deal, but renegotiating the TV deal brings in immediate revenues. Even the bottom teams will double their annual dollars.

Either way, I'm cool with a Pac-12 divisional alignment if it means that UA/ASU remain with the LA schools.


Big 12 made $5.3 million last year just in ticket sales on their Conf Championship game. Plus, the game is a ratings winner that helps in garnering a big tv package. They are big cash winners for a conference.

This is about Texas playing the Pac-10 to get concessions from the other Big 12 schools, running their own network, and maximizing cash. Tech, OU and OSU probably all ended up losing financially not coming to the Pac, but they were not about to leave Oklahoma.

Pac12 will be fine, and the revenue potential will certainly be higher than before, although ASU and the school down south probably will end up $5 to $8 million per year worse off than in the sixteen team alignment.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PAC-10 made it official today and invited Utah to join up.
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dirtygary
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Expansionocalypse was avoided for now, but it won't take much to break up the Big 12. Mizzou wanted to leave, and the Kansas schools or Iowa State can't feel too secure in that league.

Right now there are 9 teams in the WAC (1 leaving), and 9 teams in the Mountain West (1 leaving, 1 WAC team entering).

Seems like it would make the most sense for the WAC and Mountain West to consolidate as one 16-team conference, kicking Louisiana Tech out, adding one of the Kansas Schools

New Western Power Conference:

Fresno St/San Jose St
UNLV/UN-Reno
New Mexico/New Mexico St
BYU/Utah St
Colorado St/Air Force
Boise St/Idaho
SDSU/TCU
Wyoming/Kansas or Kansas St


That's a conference with a helluva footprint, with solid schools in solid markets, and much stronger than either conference is at present.
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NJ-DBACKS-FAN
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dirtygary wrote:
Expansionocalypse was avoided for now, but it won't take much to break up the Big 12. Mizzou wanted to leave, and the Kansas schools or Iowa State can't feel too secure in that league.

Right now there are 9 teams in the WAC (1 leaving), and 9 teams in the Mountain West (1 leaving, 1 WAC team entering).

Seems like it would make the most sense for the WAC and Mountain West to consolidate as one 16-team conference, kicking Louisiana Tech out, adding one of the Kansas Schools

New Western Power Conference:

Fresno St/San Jose St
UNLV/UN-Reno
New Mexico/New Mexico St
BYU/Utah St
Colorado St/Air Force
Boise St/Idaho
SDSU/TCU
Wyoming/Kansas or Kansas St


That's a conference with a helluva footprint, with solid schools in solid markets, and much stronger than either conference is at present.


Ahhh one of my fav teams..... Hawaii? (already in the WAC)
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hawaii and Louisiana Tech are expansion casualties of the WAC/MWC in this scenario. Apologies for forgetting to mention them...
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the new Pac-12, I'm reading reports that suggest CU and Utah are joining LA/AZ in the Southern division, but I don't see that happening. There's a block of 4 (LA/Bay) that don't want to be split up, and probably won't be willing to do so in order to accommodate the new schools. In that scenario, the 4 CA schools would have no problem garnering a pair of votes from UA/ASU for a divisional alignment that places the new schools with the WA and OR schools in the North, and the CA and AZ schools in the South.

No matter what the scenario, the AZ schools need to fight to remain coupled with UCLA and USC in a divisional alignment.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dirtygary wrote:
Hawaii and Louisiana Tech are expansion casualties of the WAC/MWC in this scenario. Apologies for forgetting to mention them...


if hawaii is not in a conference, they will fold... heres why

1) they need to be in a conference to make sure teams will travel to them. that is the problem (esp when june jones was there and lighting up the score board) teams would not travel there saying it was to much for the team to handle
2) the travel to hawaii, they say is bad for the team, and if they lose to a lower ranked team (most of the time they are higher ranked than hawaii) it is like a twin killing to the season for them
3) when they do schedule out of con. games they are real late in season or early. teams dont want to travel to hawaii and play a non conference game in the middle of thier conference play.

i dont get why a conference would not want them in thier conference, they are a TV draw (when on national TV) they can have a conference championship there (big draw for teams to get recruiting "going we are in hawaii in the championship game") and they can also use it as a ploy to get guys to committ, "look we also get to go to Hawaii every other year for a game"

(i know i have hawaii homer glasses on, but there are some good benefits here)

the only draw back is the travel... but remember, when a team travels to Hawaii... NCAA allows the team traveling there schedule an extra home game (that was also insentive for teams to go out there)

Hawaii has also made more of an effort to go to the main land for road games in 2010 they are @army on 9-11 ( i will be there) and than the following week @ Col. they will stay on the mainland for the week to cut down on travel... they did that 2-3 years ago when they went from La Tech to UNLV, they stayed in Houston.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's no way the AZ schools won't be coupled with the LA schools, that is as much a given as the four NW schools staying together. That leaves Cal/Stanford and Colorado/Utah, with one pair (and my guess would be Cal/Stanford) going north, and the other going south. It would be a recruiting disadvantage to the NW schools if all the California schools are in the same division.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be more fair for the CA schools to be split up, but is that what they want? The overriding powers at each of those 4 institutions might object to separation of any kind, even something as natural as the suggested Pac-North grouping, and if that position suits the interests of an additional pair of schools, that's their majority vote on that issue. In this case, from the Arizona school's perspective, it seems easier to maintain the base of alumni support and recruiting ties they've developed over the last 30 years in the 2nd largest market on the west coast, as well as a closer connection to the same groups in the Pacific Northwest.

UA has pulled some good players from Seattle - Terry, Dickerson - and Oregon (Stoudamires), as I'm sure ASU has, too, and it would be easier to recruit those players if UA/ASU are at least playing in the Bay Area on a regular basis. If not, the UA/ASU's reach into the West Coast extends as far north as LA.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

North
wash
was st.
or
or st
cal
stan

south
ucla
usc
asu
az
col
utah

they need to make sure the do the scheduling that once a year the teams in the N make a trip to LA (they want that for recruiting)

and the teams in the south need to also go to LA once a year (that is easier to do when they are in your division)
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misterx
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

breaking news: Arizona and Arizona State will start skiing teams, says Utah pres. Laughing
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misterx
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pac-10 commish Larry Scott says no decision yet on division split or title game

Utah will play in pac 10 in 2011 Colorado may have to wait until 2012 due to big 12 via Utah presser
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dirtygary wrote:
It might be more fair for the CA schools to be split up, but is that what they want? The overriding powers at each of those 4 institutions might object to separation of any kind, even something as natural as the suggested Pac-North grouping, and if that position suits the interests of an additional pair of schools, that's their majority vote on that issue.


How does the four California schools and two other members make for a majority? Last I checked, Utah and Colorado have been accepted as full members of the Conference, meaning they have voting rights as well. A majority now needs 7.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="David B"]
dirtygary wrote:
It might be more fair for the CA schools to be split up, but is that what they want? The overriding powers at each of those 4 institutions might object to separation of any kind, even something as natural as the suggested Pac-North grouping, and if that position suits the interests of an additional pair of schools, that's their majority vote on that issue.


How do the four California schools and two other members make for a majority? Last I checked, Utah and Colorado have been accepted as full members of the Conference, meaning they have voting rights as well. A majority now needs 7.
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Last edited by David B on Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NJ-DBACKS-FAN
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

misterx wrote:
Pac-10 commish Larry Scott says no decision yet on division split or title game

Utah will play in pac 10 in 2011 Colorado may have to wait until 2012 due to big 12 via Utah presser


WOW

a week ago that conference was gonna be 1AA and now they are throwing muscle around to keep them there alittle longer....

im sure TEXAS has the say there (after all it is now the LONGHORN conference)

this is nothing the pac 10 cant fix $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David B wrote:
David B wrote:
dirtygary wrote:
It might be more fair for the CA schools to be split up, but is that what they want? The overriding powers at each of those 4 institutions might object to separation of any kind, even something as natural as the suggested Pac-North grouping, and if that position suits the interests of an additional pair of schools, that's their majority vote on that issue.


How do the four California schools and two other members make for a majority? Last I checked, Utah and Colorado have been accepted as full members of the Conference, meaning they have voting rights as well. A majority now needs 7.


am I messing something or are you quoting yourself for no reason?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NJ-DBACKS-FAN wrote:
dirtygary wrote:
Hawaii and Louisiana Tech are expansion casualties of the WAC/MWC in this scenario. Apologies for forgetting to mention them...


if hawaii is not in a conference, they will fold... heres why

1) they need to be in a conference to make sure teams will travel to them. that is the problem (esp when june jones was there and lighting up the score board) teams would not travel there saying it was to much for the team to handle
2) the travel to hawaii, they say is bad for the team, and if they lose to a lower ranked team (most of the time they are higher ranked than hawaii) it is like a twin killing to the season for them
3) when they do schedule out of con. games they are real late in season or early. teams dont want to travel to hawaii and play a non conference game in the middle of thier conference play.

i dont get why a conference would not want them in thier conference, they are a TV draw (when on national TV) they can have a conference championship there (big draw for teams to get recruiting "going we are in hawaii in the championship game") and they can also use it as a ploy to get guys to committ, "look we also get to go to Hawaii every other year for a game"

(i know i have hawaii homer glasses on, but there are some good benefits here)

the only draw back is the travel... but remember, when a team travels to Hawaii... NCAA allows the team traveling there schedule an extra home game (that was also insentive for teams to go out there)

Hawaii has also made more of an effort to go to the main land for road games in 2010 they are @army on 9-11 ( i will be there) and than the following week @ Col. they will stay on the mainland for the week to cut down on travel... they did that 2-3 years ago when they went from La Tech to UNLV, they stayed in Houston.

I reconsidered - keep Hawaii in the league and pair them with SDSU. Keep LaTech, add Montana, and you have an all new 18-team MWAC (Mountain Western Athletic Conference), hitting a bunch of markets and mutually enhancing each other's TV revenues.

I'd break it down to:

6-team Pacific Division:
San Jose State/Fresno State
San Diego State/Hawaii
UNLV/UN-Reno

6-team South Division:
TCU/LaTech
New Mexico/NMSU
Air Force/Colorado St

6-Team North Division:
BYU/Utah St
Idaho/Boise St
Wyoming/Montana

Play a MWAC Final-4 with a wild card team, or cut 2 teams and have 4 4-team divisions. Either way, those teams are stronger in a single conference than separated into two weaker conferences.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dirtygary wrote:
NJ-DBACKS-FAN wrote:
dirtygary wrote:
Hawaii and Louisiana Tech are expansion casualties of the WAC/MWC in this scenario. Apologies for forgetting to mention them...


if hawaii is not in a conference, they will fold... heres why

1) they need to be in a conference to make sure teams will travel to them. that is the problem (esp when june jones was there and lighting up the score board) teams would not travel there saying it was to much for the team to handle
2) the travel to hawaii, they say is bad for the team, and if they lose to a lower ranked team (most of the time they are higher ranked than hawaii) it is like a twin killing to the season for them
3) when they do schedule out of con. games they are real late in season or early. teams dont want to travel to hawaii and play a non conference game in the middle of thier conference play.

i dont get why a conference would not want them in thier conference, they are a TV draw (when on national TV) they can have a conference championship there (big draw for teams to get recruiting "going we are in hawaii in the championship game") and they can also use it as a ploy to get guys to committ, "look we also get to go to Hawaii every other year for a game"

(i know i have hawaii homer glasses on, but there are some good benefits here)

the only draw back is the travel... but remember, when a team travels to Hawaii... NCAA allows the team traveling there schedule an extra home game (that was also insentive for teams to go out there)

Hawaii has also made more of an effort to go to the main land for road games in 2010 they are @army on 9-11 ( i will be there) and than the following week @ Col. they will stay on the mainland for the week to cut down on travel... they did that 2-3 years ago when they went from La Tech to UNLV, they stayed in Houston.

I reconsidered - keep Hawaii in the league and pair them with SDSU. Keep LaTech, add Montana, and you have an all new 18-team MWAC (Mountain Western Athletic Conference), hitting a bunch of markets and mutually enhancing each other's TV revenues.

I'd break it down to:

6-team Pacific Division:
San Jose State/Fresno State
San Diego State/Hawaii
UNLV/UN-Reno

6-team South Division:
TCU/LaTech
New Mexico/NMSU
Air Force/Colorado St

6-Team North Division:
BYU/Utah St
Idaho/Boise St
Wyoming/Montana

Play a MWAC Final-4 with a wild card team, or cut 2 teams and have 4 4-team divisions. Either way, those teams are stronger in a single conference than separated into two weaker conferences.


i honestly really like your layout!!! perfect

did i do a good sales job? Wink hawaii should hire me
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How does that new WAC/MWC merger not work for everybody?

As it is, they're both very weak conferences, but with that alignment, maybe even adding the Kansas schools to form a 20-team mega-conference, and that is a formidable league that can establish itself as a power in the west as future expansions occur, and could attract a very nice TV deal from the sheer number of growing markets.
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