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The 2009 Draftee Report Card - Part One, Corner Infielders

 
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AZ SnakePit
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:58 pm    Post subject: The 2009 Draftee Report Card - Part One, Corner Infielders Reply with quote

A quick plug for a piece on the SnakePit - the first part of a review by Zephon and IHateSouthBend of the early returns from our 2009 draft picks. A lot of work and discussion was involved, so all comments would be welcomed by the authors, I'm sure.

The 2009 Draftee Report Card - Part One, Corner Infielders
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Zephon
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part two will be posted tomorrow and will look at the middle infielders taken in the draft
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levski
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do the grades mean? For example

Grade: C- (short term: C-, Long term: B)

What's A, B, C, D?
What's short term vs. long term?
And why does short term matter?
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Zephon
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An A grade is an Excellent, B grade is above average. C is average, d is below average.Haven't you gone to school before?

A player with an A grade for his short term had an all star season. An A for long term means that we would expect him to have an above average major league career, in a perfect world.

Short term is the grade for the season, long term is the expectation for the player's career, IE what kind of player he'll become. I thought we explained that well enough in the intro.


Last edited by Zephon on Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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Justin
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zephon wrote:
An A grade is an Excellent Player. B grade is above average. C is average. Haven't you gone to school before?

Short term is the grade for the season. I thought we explained that well enough in the intro.


Hes a 45 year old 4th grader.
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Zephon
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that explains a lot. So levski is the real world equivalent of peter griffin then?
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levski
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zephon wrote:
An A grade is an Excellent, B grade is above average. C is average, d is below average.Haven't you gone to school before?

A player with an A grade for his short term had an all star season. An A for long term means that we would expect him to have an above average major league career, in a perfect world.

Short term is the grade for the season, long term is the expectation for the player's career, IE what kind of player he'll become. I thought we explained that well enough in the intro.


Where I went to school, A was a failing grade...

My thoughts are that assigning short term grades to prospects in the low minors is a pretty pointless exercise. The only "term" that matters is their careers in the majors, if and when they get there. So rather than focusing on trying to project what they'll do in low A ball next year, I'd rather try to figure out a) what are the chances said players would ever reach the majors; and b) what are the chances said players would ever be at least major league average players. You take it from there, and count your lucky stars if you get enough production out of them in the majors to ever justify their signing bonuses...

And I guess I missed your explanation in the intro... it's just that your intro was really hard to read...
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stu
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

levski wrote:
Zephon wrote:
An A grade is an Excellent, B grade is above average. C is average, d is below average.Haven't you gone to school before?

A player with an A grade for his short term had an all star season. An A for long term means that we would expect him to have an above average major league career, in a perfect world.

Short term is the grade for the season, long term is the expectation for the player's career, IE what kind of player he'll become. I thought we explained that well enough in the intro.


Where I went to school, A was a failing grade...

My thoughts are that assigning short term grades to prospects in the low minors is a pretty pointless exercise. The only "term" that matters is their careers in the majors, if and when they get there. So rather than focusing on trying to project what they'll do in low A ball next year, I'd rather try to figure out a) what are the chances said players would ever reach the majors; and b) what are the chances said players would ever be at least major league average players. You take it from there, and count your lucky stars if you get enough production out of them in the majors to ever justify their signing bonuses...

And I guess I missed your explanation in the intro... it's just that your intro was really hard to read...


One sentence paragraphs are bad. Eleven sentence paragraphs are worse. This is especially true if seven of the sentences are 20 words and over.

If you have more than three sentences, see if you can use a paragraph. If you have more than fifteen words in a sentence, be careful.


Last edited by stu on Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Zephon
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually levski, the idea of two grades was actually IHSB's idea. I was going to go with one grade initially, but he pressed for two grades, and we ended up with that. I agree with you that the short term grades are kinda pointless, the only grade that should matter is whither or not the player makes it to the majors, and what his upside is. I'm not sure why we got away from that basic point.

This is really the first constructive and/or negative criticism that i've gotten on these articles. Honestly though, I really appreciate the input, and i want to improve my writing, and that's why I love to get people's thoughts and constructive criticism. Perhaps you guys could leave your comments on the snakepit? I think the more discussion we get on these players, the better.

I personally did not write the final draft of the intro that appears in the article, IHSB did. I did however do the initial rough draft and second revision, as well as compiling all the statistics used in the articles(which was a total pain in the ass, btw)

This is the first time i've been able to write pretty much anything in the last year and half. I was put on some medication that really inhibited my ability to get any of my thoughts down(one of the reasons why i've stopped posting here as much as i used to). In the last month though i've been switched to different medication that is working much better and with less side affects. So obviously, since i haven't written anything in quite some time, I'm a little rusty. The other factor is collaborating with someone else on something as lengthy as this prospect series. There's a lot of give and take and the end result is not always what you'd have done personally.

I do think that as I start writing more, the end results should be a lot better. I've got a lot of content planned for the offseason and during the season, and hopefully with practice, my writing will get better.
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stu
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it great for you to write an article like that. It was a good piece. I'm sorry I came off as being so negative.

You are right. The way to get better at writing is to write. Even more important, re-write.
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Zephon
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks stu, and don't worry about it. You didn't come off as that negative, Levski did. But he always comes off as negative, so whatever.
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levski
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See, I didn't mean to come off sounding negative. I was just being myself, and so that's always a problem.

Now, I think you did a good job with the article, and shouldn't take my feedback negatively but constructively. Your points/observations on many of the players was actually quite good, and I learned a lot about players that I really didn't know much about. So for that alone, your efforts are very much appreciated - and I hope this comes off sounding positively (I can't tell).

My main "constructive" (and not negative) feedback was around the grades (i.e., I didn't see a point in assigning short term grades to prospects who were drafted a few months ago) and around the paragraph structure. Granted, nobody wants to read Plaschke columns that are five words per sentence, one sentence per paragraph, but your article was tough to read.

That's all, really. If I still come off sounding too negative, so be it.
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Zephon
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok that's some criticism that I can handle, and I appreciate the compliments on the article.

I actually agree with you on both criticisms, and i'll try and work on that for future articles. My writing isn't always the easiest to read.

edit: Grammar.


Last edited by Zephon on Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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Smokey
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zephon wrote:
Ok that's some criticism that I can handle, and I appreciate the compliments on the article.

I actually agree with you both criticisms, and i'll try and work on that for future articles. My writing isn't always the easiest to read.


This ain't English 201--I couldn't care less about sentence structure and etc... I just appreciate all the time you've put into those articles. They're very informative. Thanks for writing and posting them.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part three was posted yesterday.
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matt
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you've made extraordinary improvements to how you analyze players. You used to just put up a bunch of numbers but you've added a lot recently. Keep it up.
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Zephon
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks matt. I took pretty much a year and half break from writing, and in that time i started to look at other objective ways to analyze players. I've gotten a lot of help on my writing from my fiancée(who i met on snakepit, actually) and from IHSB(who put a ton of work into these articles, and has done a great job IMHO).

I'm really working on how to analyze players, and i thought I'd share my thoughts on how I make an objective analysis on an a player. I've gotten into using stats like k/9, BB/9, hr/9, FIP and BABIP for pitchers, using ISO, K% and BB%, K/BB ratio, BABIP, et cetera for hitters. In addition, I look at age vs level, their stats vs league average, and the expectations for the player based on draft position. I've also tried to incorporate more scouting reports, and getting as much information as i can out of guys like nick piecoro. In addition, this forum is in fact one of my prime sources of info. Without you guys, I wouldn't have half the amount of information on prospects as i would otherwise.


We're down to the final stretch with these articles, with pitchers up next(and there are quite a few pitchers worth looking at). After I'm done with this series of articles, we're doing the top 30 prospect list. I've come to the conclusion that ranking hitters with pitchers is completely unfair and stupid, what with the whole TINSTAAPP thing. So in my list, you'll see that i've made two lists, with the pitchers and hitters ranked separately.

After that I'm taking a break for a while, before i get started on some other stuff. I thought i'd ask what y'all think of one of my ideas for an upcoming article. Prospect smackdowns seem like a popular idea, and I'm thinking of branching out and analyzing both our players, and players from other organizations. Perhaps a position by position breakdown that compares the prospects in our system to the prospects in the rest of our division?
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EvilJuan
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zephon wrote:
I thought i'd ask what y'all think of one of my ideas for an upcoming article. ... Perhaps a position by position breakdown that compares the prospects in our system to the prospects in the rest of our division?


That sounds interesting!

Of course, I'm not the one doing the work... Laughing

Go for it! Exclamation
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Zephon
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I guess i'll have to add that to my to do list EJ Razz
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part four has been posted!
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zephon wrote:
Part four has been posted!


Thanks, Zephon! Looks like there is a lot of potential in those arms. Good to see.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part five will be posted on wednesday, along with IHSB's top 40 prospect list. Make sure to check that out. We're finally done.

I made sure to give a shout out to all of you on the bullpen, btw.
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