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Hansen goes looney; Gilbert calls him out
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ValueArb
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dirtygary wrote:
Steve Gilbert wrote:
...but this notion that Arte Moreno would spend $115 million on payroll if he owned the D-backs is hard to fathom. Moreno spends that kind of money because he's in a market far, far, far bigger than Arizona's.

I disagree. He's a billionaire. He was willing to write a check for the entire club solo. He's a native Arizonan, loves baseball, and is a competitive sonuvabitch.

Moreno purchased the Angels in May 2003

Club Payrolls:

2000: $58.7M
2001: $46.5M
2002: $67.7M
2003: $79.0M

2004: $101.0M

He bumped payroll up 25%. I personally think he would have done the exact same thing here. He understood that a losing franchise is worthless.


Yea, he really outspent us.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/33/biz_baseball08_The-Business-Of-Baseball_Rank.html

Angels 2008 revenue $200M player expenses $119M (59.5%)
DBacks 2008 revenue $165M player expenses $97M (58.7%)

We know that Arte isn't competitive enough to kick in $22M out of his own pocket for payroll in 2008, because he didn't do it in LA. And if he owned the DBacks he would have been handcuffed by the same deferred contracts as the Kendrick group is. Instead he bought a team with a potential fan base at least double the Diamondbacks (14M in Los Angeles and Orange Counties, 4M in Phoenix Metro area), giving him more revenues, and without the legacy debts, enable him to spend more.
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ValueArb
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
-This ownership group is 80 games under .500 with one post-season appearance in the 6 years since taking over.


No, Jerry put together that 51-111 disaster, you can't give the new ownership responsibility for those losses when they took over in AUGUST of that year. Their record is 395-415, only 10 games under .500 while startring with a total mess.

Quote:
-Colangelo overspent which is a burden on this ownership group, but this ownership has also made too many poor decisions regarding personnel to receive sympathy.


They have made mistakes, but their "poor decisions" resulted in winning 77 games the VERY NEXT YEAR after Colangelo's 51 win swan song. The guy responsible for the worst of the decisions now owns the Padres, and a few years ago they finally hired a good general manager. Josh Byrnes is only 6 games under .500 while being handcuffed by the mistakes of both Colangelo, and Moorad.

Quote:
-Of the top 5 players on the Club, it's looking like Reynolds will be the only one to stick around.


You don't have any idea of who will stay around. And what "top five" are you talking about, the only ones that matter are Reynolds and Upton. Drew is at best an average short stop, Brandon Allen has a good chance to be more valuable than Drew next year. Chris Snyder has been one of our best players, but he's had a lot of wear and tear in the toughest position and is not likely to valuable going forward. And all of them are locked up for multiple years.
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dirtygary
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xjwheeler wrote:
dg: why are you so hostile? You seem offended by and condescending toward those who disagree with you.

My apologies if I've come across as condescending - that wasn't the intent, nor have I called anybody's arguments dumb. We just disagree on whether it is valid to compare stadiums that would fall in different MLB stadium sub-categories and how Chase stacks up in my conjured population of all MLB stadiums.

My bad for disagreeing with the masses - everything that Hansen guy said is BS!!! Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dirtygary wrote:
xjwheeler wrote:
dg: why are you so hostile? You seem offended by and condescending toward those who disagree with you.

My apologies if I've come across as condescending - that wasn't the intent, nor have I called anybody's arguments dumb. We just disagree on whether it is valid to compare stadiums that would fall in different MLB stadium sub-categories and how Chase stacks up in my conjured population of all MLB stadiums.

My bad for disagreeing with the masses - everything that Hansen guy said is BS!!! Laughing


haha...not what I meant, but dont' let it happen again. Wink
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TAP
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a book not likely to make the New York Times Best Seller List.
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dirtygary
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAP wrote:
Here's a book not likely to make the New York Times Best Seller List.

Why rush to judgment? You've read at least 2 articles by the guy... Or are you just waiting for Bickley's book to come out?

Either way, it's already on my x-mas list... You can have your NYT best-sellers... Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DesertKnight wrote:
dirtygary wrote:
Dodger Stadium? (no)
AT&T Park? (no)
Petco Park? (no)
Coors Field? (no)


Oh, please--what a dumb argument. As long as you need a roof to play baseball in 115 degree heat, there are engineering concerns that dictate the shape of the building. You can't put a roof on an open park like any of those you mentioned. If you're going to compare Chase to other parks, you have to compare apples to apples. The comparisons would be the parks in Milwaukee, Houston, Seattle, and Toronto. If you want to diss Chase, that's fine--but at least make a reasonable argument. Sure, on the whole, I think most people would prefer an open park, and open parks are better in most ways. But NOT IN 115 DEGREE HEAT!!!!!


The problem I have with the roof is not when it is shut on those 100+ degree days; it is when it is shut at night and even early in the season because parts of the stadium may have sun on them. Opening Day last year was somewhere around 78-82 degrees and the roof was shut - that's pathetic. Chase Field could look better and it is far from the bottom, but the perception would improve if we had the roof open for all night games and nice days - even if a large crowd shows up.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derrick Hall deserves a lot of credit for reversing this though.

The roof is open a LOT more than it was four years ago, and I believe they even open it for day games that aren't sellouts (which is why it wasn't open on opening day last year) where they have enough seats to relocate any fans that complain.

When the roof is open during a day game, a huge section of the field is in direct sunlight, and then you have fans angry that they paid money for lower level seats only to have the sun in their eyes, along with the concerned that they won't be able to see a foul ball coming in their direction and have enough time to react.

The roof stays open now during most night games where the temp is under 100 degrees as well.

Someone is always going to complain, and I think Derrick has done a great job finding common ground to try to appease everyone, even though there will be people on both sides of the issue who are upset because he isn't doing what they want 100% of the time.
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ValueArb
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anyone on this board directly or even implicitly criticizes Derrick Hall, can I get in on the lynch mob?

I like Mr. Hall so much I even give him a pass on not knowing how to spell Derek properly:)
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ValueArb wrote:
If anyone on this board directly or even implicitly criticizes Derrick Hall, can I get in on the lynch mob?

I like Mr. Hall so much I even give him a pass on not knowing how to spell Derek properly:)


I'll lead the lynch mob.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sb24ws2005 wrote:
DesertKnight wrote:
dirtygary wrote:
Dodger Stadium? (no)
AT&T Park? (no)
Petco Park? (no)
Coors Field? (no)


Oh, please--what a dumb argument. As long as you need a roof to play baseball in 115 degree heat, there are engineering concerns that dictate the shape of the building. You can't put a roof on an open park like any of those you mentioned. If you're going to compare Chase to other parks, you have to compare apples to apples. The comparisons would be the parks in Milwaukee, Houston, Seattle, and Toronto. If you want to diss Chase, that's fine--but at least make a reasonable argument. Sure, on the whole, I think most people would prefer an open park, and open parks are better in most ways. But NOT IN 115 DEGREE HEAT!!!!!


The problem I have with the roof is not when it is shut on those 100+ degree days; it is when it is shut at night and even early in the season because parts of the stadium may have sun on them. Opening Day last year was somewhere around 78-82 degrees and the roof was shut - that's pathetic. Chase Field could look better and it is far from the bottom, but the perception would improve if we had the roof open for all night games and nice days - even if a large crowd shows up.


You can't keep the roof open during ALL of the night games.
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dirtygary
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hansen goes Looney again, writes story on passing of military veteran and Forgotten Legend...

Greg Hansen wrote:
Roger Johnson died last week in Phoenix. He was 79. His obituary said, simply "rising from humble beginnings … he was ever stoic and a man of few words."

What it didn't say was that Roger Johnson might have been the greatest athlete in UA history.

Across a 32-day period in the winter of 1950-51, Johnson led the Arizona basketball team to victories over defending NCAA champion City College of New York, No.2 Long Island and No. 19 West Virginia.

It was at the time, and for many years thereafter, stretching into the 1980s, the most notable collection of victories, any sport, in UA history. It was almost inconceivable for a dusty little school from the Border Conference to beat even one of those teams.

The papers sometimes referred to Johnson by a single name - "Rajah" - and treated him with the reverence given a man who long-jumped 23 feet (in his baseball uniform) and became the only two-sport All-American in school history.

When I asked Johnson about those games a few years ago he was silent for an awkward period and then changed the subject.

"The day I got home from that trip, from playing CCNY in Madison Square Garden, I received a notice from the draft board telling me to report for a physical," he said. "I loved sports, but I knew from that moment I had no future playing ball."

And so he never did. He became an Air Force pilot, sacrificing opportunities to play for the Boston Red Sox and for the NBA's old Milwaukee Hawks.

By 1968, Roger Johnson was bombing North Vietnam. When he returned to Tucson that year, he revealed that he had flown 121 missions and sometimes had difficulty believing he had not been killed.

"I was lucky; I never got hit. There were many times I could hear the shells whizzing past the canopy," he told the Star. "But I've got a lot of friends in the Hanoi Hilton (prison camp). I hope this will lead to their release and end the fighting."


This Hansen guy doesn't write anything worth anything... Should definitely go read Bickley's latest homage to Chi-Town instead... Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You seem to be under the impression that those who dislike Hansen's work really like Bickley's work. Is this just a strawman tactic or is based on something tangible?

Bickley's as big a hack as they come, IMO...
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dirtygary
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hansen goes looney again...
Greg Hansen wrote:
Greg Hansen: D-backs game was hot ticket a decade ago; now few care

...In February of 1998, I gathered with nine friends and associates for one of the most keenly anticipated sporting events in Arizona history: We had combined to buy season tickets for the Diamondbacks inaugural season, and this would be our draft day. Each investor would be able to draft eight home games for the '98 season. One lucky soul would win the rights to opening day.

And so in the spring and summer of 1998 I drove from Tucson to Phoenix for eight Diamondbacks games. I attended another 10 or 15 games pretending to be a sports columnist for this newspaper.

I didn't mind the drive. I didn't mind the 114 degrees. It was big-league baseball, and even for a team that finished 65-97, the novelty stretched across the entire summer. I was there when Omar Daal pitched the first complete-game shutout in franchise history. I was among the 3,610,290 fans (the world champion Yankees only drew 2,955,193) who couldn't get enough.

By 2001, the Diamondbacks were world champions.

Now, nine years later, a night at Chase Field is 25,000 empty seats with half of the house cheering for the Dodgers (or Cubs or Yankees). There are no season-ticket holders at my office, nobody eager to divvy up 81 games. The one-time baseball Camelot has been reduced to the fate of the Kansas City Royals and Pittsburgh Pirates in baseball's dreaded small-market division, doomed to lose.

On Saturday, the D-backs lost 14-1 to the Dodgers and committed a franchise-record six errors. A three-game, holiday-weekend series produced 52,000 empty seats...


The Diamondbacks' great fall and the collective apathy of Arizona baseball fans is a bit bewildering.

There are a lot of reasons the D-backs are a wreck, ranging from the short pockets of the owners to a farm system and player-development chain that has gone bust...


So, at age 13, the D-backs are starting over. Can anybody spare a dime?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you read the entire article he makes valid points!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dirtygary wrote:
Greg Hansen wrote:

By 2001, the Diamondbacks were world champions.

Now, nine years later, a night at Chase Field is 25,000 empty seats with half of the house cheering for the Dodgers (or Cubs or Yankees). There are no season-ticket holders at my office, nobody eager to divvy up 81 games. The one-time baseball Camelot has been reduced to the fate of the Kansas City Royals and Pittsburgh Pirates in baseball's dreaded small-market division, doomed to lose.


This made me chuckle.

Why would we be able to pack Chase with D'Backs fans? We've been around 13 years. Most of Arizona is filled with bandwagon fans of other teams from when there wasn't a team here. You don't create a fanbase in 13 years. It just doesn't happen. You see the same thing with our expansion brother, the Rays. And they're a good team.

Pretty quick to call the D'Backs the next Royals or Pirates. No other team has had more success in their first 13 years than the D'Backs. We have a good core. Those teams have pretty crappy cores. Greinke and Butler for the Royals... and McCutchen for the Pirates. We have an allstar in center, a future MVP candidate in right, a guy always in the top of the MLB in ISO at third, one of the best catchers in baseball, and an ace.

We are not the Royals. We are not the Pirates.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well then tell the owners to stop complaining about their market size and give us a payroll that dooesn't so closely resemble teams of the Pirates' and Royals' ilk...
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dirtygary wrote:
Well then tell the owners to stop complaining about their market size and give us a payroll that dooesn't so closely resemble teams of the Pirates' and Royals' ilk...


i dont know what thread it was in, but isnt Phoenix growing into a larger metro city? why the small market talk so much from owners?

i see 5 or 6 on these sites

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763098.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population

and this one has the 4th most increase.

http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-06-22/news/21921638_1_census-population-estimates-texas-cities

Census population estimates for the 10 cities with population of more than 100,000 that had the largest numeric increase from July 1, 2008, to July 1, 2009:
City 2009 Pop.
Increase
New York 8,391,881 45,087
Los Angeles 3,831,868 30,294
San Antonio 1,373,668 24,394
Phoenix 1,601,587 23,775
Fort Worth, Texas 727,575 23,276
Chicago 2,851,268 21,242
Dallas 1,299,543 20,004
Houston 2,257,926 19,743
Austin, Texas 786,382 19,183
New Orleans 354,850 18,206
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im getting close to getting on the blow it up bus Sad
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NJ-DBACKS-FAN wrote:
dirtygary wrote:
Well then tell the owners to stop complaining about their market size and give us a payroll that dooesn't so closely resemble teams of the Pirates' and Royals' ilk...


i dont know what thread it was in, but isnt Phoenix growing into a larger metro city? why the small market talk so much from owners?


Once they get rid of all the illegal immigrants, Phoenix will be a town of a thousand gringos and a dozen white haired ladies on golf carts. If that isn't a small village, I don't know what is...
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

levski wrote:
NJ-DBACKS-FAN wrote:
dirtygary wrote:
Well then tell the owners to stop complaining about their market size and give us a payroll that dooesn't so closely resemble teams of the Pirates' and Royals' ilk...


i dont know what thread it was in, but isnt Phoenix growing into a larger metro city? why the small market talk so much from owners?


Once they get rid of all the illegal immigrants, Phoenix will be a town of a thousand gringos and a dozen white haired ladies on golf carts. If that isn't a small village, I don't know what is...


LMAO
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dirtygary
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right or wrong, Hansen's perception of the Dbacks is much more closely aligned to that of a very crucial demographic: Baby Boomers with money to spend. Maybe it's just the ones in Southern Arizona - but after the way the Club treated them, can you blame 'em?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

levski wrote:
NJ-DBACKS-FAN wrote:
dirtygary wrote:
Well then tell the owners to stop complaining about their market size and give us a payroll that dooesn't so closely resemble teams of the Pirates' and Royals' ilk...


i dont know what thread it was in, but isnt Phoenix growing into a larger metro city? why the small market talk so much from owners?


Once they get rid of all the illegal immigrants, Phoenix will be a town of a thousand gringos and a dozen white haired ladies on golf carts. If that isn't a small village, I don't know what is...


No, there are more US Citizen and permanent-resident aliens here of Hispanic dissent than there are illegal immigrants of Hispanic dissent.

SB1070 isn't some sort or "ethnic cleansing" legislation. It's about being able to enforce laws the federal government should be enforcing but chooses not to.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't there a separate thread for this?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Population size is one variable. Income is another. If you want fun with numbers...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highest-income_metropolitan_statistical_areas_in_the_United_States
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Warhorse wrote:
levski wrote:
NJ-DBACKS-FAN wrote:
dirtygary wrote:
Well then tell the owners to stop complaining about their market size and give us a payroll that dooesn't so closely resemble teams of the Pirates' and Royals' ilk...


i dont know what thread it was in, but isnt Phoenix growing into a larger metro city? why the small market talk so much from owners?


Once they get rid of all the illegal immigrants, Phoenix will be a town of a thousand gringos and a dozen white haired ladies on golf carts. If that isn't a small village, I don't know what is...


No, there are more US Citizen and permanent-resident aliens here of Hispanic dissent than there are illegal immigrants of Hispanic dissent.

SB1070 isn't some sort or "ethnic cleansing" legislation. It's about being able to enforce laws the federal government should be enforcing but chooses not to.


I'm pretty sure Hispanic dissent is the whole reason behind SB1070 Laughing
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