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Soria "no"
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tmar
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:38 am    Post subject: Soria "no" Reply with quote

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=73931&PHPSESSID=a2633ec552014f70ef39efda655c3a6b

Scott Bordow makes his case for why AZ should go after Soriano. I'd love to have him but understand he'd be way too expensive as a ratio of players to available salary.

Scott does bring up some interesting, somewhat disappointing points about the FO's financial commitment to winning <sound like another Scott I know>.
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shoewizard
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's amazing to me that a mainstream writer who is supposed to know what he is talking about can rant about the teams payroll and finances and commitment to winning without any mention of the monstrous deferred salary debt and the amount of cash raised by current ownership to cover the mountain of money owed thanks to Jerry Colangelo's faulty business plan.

The team entered this season with a 79% debt to value ratio. That comes to 241 million, down from 300 million the season before. I am sure that another good sized chunk of that debt has been paid down, but it will still be a few more years before it can all be paid off.

Very poor work Scott. You should do your homework more, and write a more balanced piece. This looks no better than the uninformed fanboy crap you read on the MLB.com message board.

Forbes Business of Baseball 2005 review

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TAP
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott Bordow wrote:
How do I know Arizona won’t make a run at Soriano? Because I asked a philosophical question about payroll, and this is the answer I got from general manager Josh Byrnes.

“In general I’d rather divide it up and not bet so much on one player,” Byrnes said. “So many players need to pitch in to win 90 or 95 games. It’s not just one person’s performance.”

Tell that to the...San Francisco Giants and Barry Bonds.

That's a confusing example for Bordow to use to support his case for pursuing Soriano. Is his goal for AZ to simply put butts in the seats (Barry has) or to win a WS ring (Barry hasn't)?
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dirtygary
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the team can get away with not winning very much next year if they market it correctly.

Sell the PHX/Tuc area on a whole "new" team - New uni's, our own young players, maybe a little renovation to BOB, etc, and Cy Young candidate/winner Brandon Webb. This is a fickle town; but the Suns are all sold out, the novelty of a new stadium will wear off for the Cards; and ASU doesn't compete with the D-Backs.

This is PHX, we like new things, not old. This team, ballpark atmosphere, etc., has gotten a little stale.

We say it's a whole new team, come out and see our new young players everyday, and get ready to watch this thing get rollin.

This would cover the trading of Byrnes, Estrada, and maybe Hudson, and really cut our payroll down. Drop that debt/income ratio or allow a little extra spending when the time comes that we need a little extra to get over the hump, or start saving so we can retain our own players as they become arb eligible/free agents.
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matt
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shoe, you should copy and paste that into an email and send it to him. That is a perfect response. The sad thing is that none of the local writers put together anything that considers the overall payroll situations. Shit, they hardly even hint that JC nearly wrecked the franchise.

If 2007 was supposed to be 'our year' and we were going into it with our current LF situation I'd give Soriano a good look. But it isn't and we have people that can play a good LF for us next season.

Does anyone think he can get to 50/50 this year? I wonder why Robinson isn't having him run more to inflate the SB numbers. Who fucking cares if he gets a CS? It's not like they are going anywhere.
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shoewizard
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Shoe, you should copy and paste that into an email and send it to him.


I did. And I also invited him to join the discussion. If he shows up, everyone be nice Wink
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matt
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well he isn't Gambo or Bickley so we don't have a reason to hate him... yet.
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moviegeekjn
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt wrote:
Well he isn't Gambo or Bickley so we don't have a reason to hate him... yet.
He had generally been among the more insightful of the regular local sportswriters; perhaps he was having a bad day when he wrote this up.
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Dangerfield
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I blame Hank for the article. Dog pile Hank.
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shoewizard
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Scott....look at what the kids are doing today....there is plenty of hitting and run scoring to come from these young players. Offense will not be the problem next year, they do not need to waste resources on Soriano.
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baldmaga
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about we resign Gonzo to however long he wants for however much he wants, then trade him straight up for Soriano.

If he's as good as he says he is, it'd be a downgrade in LF for us...
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Catharsis
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shoewizard wrote:
It's amazing to me that a mainstream writer who is supposed to know what he is talking about can rant about the teams payroll and finances and commitment to winning without any mention of the monstrous deferred salary debt and the amount of cash raised by current ownership to cover the mountain of money owed thanks to Jerry Colangelo's faulty business plan.

The team entered this season with a 79% debt to value ratio. That comes to 241 million, down from 300 million the season before. I am sure that another good sized chunk of that debt has been paid down, but it will still be a few more years before it can all be paid off.

Very poor work Scott. You should do your homework more, and write a more balanced piece. This looks no better than the uninformed fanboy crap you read on the MLB.com message board.

Forbes Business of Baseball 2005 review

Rankings


Check out the Dodgers' debt to value ration of 87. How much more in debt are they than AZ considering they are worth $177 million more?
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shoewizard
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is because McCort was underfinanced when he bought the team.

Don't forget to look at their revenues too, the Dodgers had 45 million more in revenues than the d backs last year, and surely that gap grew this year as well.

The Dodgers Debt/Value ratio will drop faster than the D backs. They are BIG market, D backs are MID market.
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levski
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soriano?!

I'm sure Scott is a nice guy and has a family to feed so I'm not going to ask him to step into my office... but what the fk?

Did he have a deadline to beat, or is he getting paid by the sentence? Why does he waste his time going Gambo on us?
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TAP
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

levski wrote:
Soriano?!

I'm sure Scott is a nice guy and has a family to feed so I'm not going to ask him to step into my office... but what the fk?

Did he have a deadline to beat, or is he getting paid by the sentence? Why does he waste his time going Gambo on us?

It did seem a bit out of character for Scott. Maybe it was Gambadoro using Bordow as a pseudonym for credibility's sake.

It didn't work. Wink
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tmar
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't be too hard on Scott. I think he was just a little off base. We are a team with about 15MM free and will possibly be 1 player away from winning it all in 2008.

Soriano would make sense if we had 30MM free and were 1 player short of winning it all in 2007.
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levski
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tmar wrote:
I wouldn't be too hard on Scott. I think he was just a little off base. We are a team with about 15MM free and will possibly be 1 player away from winning it all in 2008.

Soriano would make sense if we had 30MM free and were 1 player short of winning it all in 2007.


Two words to help guide teams looking at Soriano:

Adrian Beltre. Minus the defense.
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matt
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think Lev. Look at the comparisons:

Beltre hit .334/.388/.629 in his contract year. His previous highs and career averages (including contract year) were:

Code:
BA    .290   .270
OBP   .360   .326
SLG   .475   .453


Soriano is hitting .290/.360/.588 His previous highs and career averages were:

Code:
BA    .300   .282
OBP   .338   .327
SLG   .547   .514


Soriano's BA is not really different from his previous numbers. His OBP and SLG are career highs but he's always been average in OBP and well above average in SLG. Also, they are not even close to as far away as they were for Beltre.

Beltre's numbers were all WAY off the charts. So far off that tehy had to be a mirage. Soriano has always been strong, sure, he will regress next season but the dropoff won't be as severe.
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qudjy1
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder how many hrs soriano would hit in chase?

Not saying that s a good move to make at all, just wondering...
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shoewizard
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

qudjy1 wrote:
I wonder how many hrs soriano would hit in chase?

Not saying that s a good move to make at all, just wondering...


How many did he hit in Texas? Wink
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levski
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt wrote:
I don't think Lev. Look at the comparisons:

Beltre hit .334/.388/.629 in his contract year. His previous highs and career averages (including contract year) were:


That's not what I meant, matt. I meant that Soriano, like Beltre, will ride a huge season into a huge contract and then underachieve for the next 5 years. Granted, his implosion probably won't be as bad as Beltre's, but I'd be cautious with him. For a team like AZ, Soriano makes no sense...
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qudjy1
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This article is another example of how the mentality of everyone in this town needs to change. We are in a mid market, with a huge amount a debt, and cannot afford to spend 15M on one guy whos price is overstated by this years performance. Seems like a perfect example of buy high scenario..

I do think soriano is an exciting player who would be fun to watch, but its just crazy to think we would be able (even if we wanted to) to compete against the big market teams for his services...
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EvilJuan
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who, besides Gambo and Ash, and the casual fans, are advocating a "big bat" for the Diamondbacks, and (with panic on the edge of their voices) urge the FO to pursue a player such as Soriano?

Someone sane -- a member of this community -- has said (rightly, imho) that there are four to five Diamondback players capable of delivering 20-25 HR each next season, as well as hitting for power apart from the HR. That being the case, it makes more sense to me to either put the available dollars into pitching; or banking some of it for when our arb-eligible players are due for increases, and for a plunge into the pitching market after the '07 season.
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moviegeekjn
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EvilJuan wrote:
Who, besides Gambo and Ash, and the casual fans, are advocating a "big bat" for the Diamondbacks, and (with panic on the edge of their voices) urge the FO to pursue a player such as Soriano?


G & A inspire the casual fans to looney ideas, since they think that G & A actually have a clue about baseball. If you ask these fans what G & A's credentials are, they'll talk about how they have the most popular sports call in show in the valley.

A Shoe & Levski show would never make it in Phoenix. Levski would get censored to death, and most casual fans would think Shoe was too boring because he's got too much logic and facts to back himself up. Wink
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matt
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I certainly wouldn't listen. Who wants to listen to a talk show personality that is actually right?
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