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Bye Bye Sidewinders?
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Ben Cheney
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Portland franchise purchase was a bit of a surprise. New ownership can't move the franchise as the City of Portland forced the PCL to guarantee a team in PGE Park through the 2010 season.

I think the new owners chose Portland as it has been and could be considered a MLB market which they would hold territorial rights to.
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Polar Bear Fan
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Espo wrote:
I heard Colorado Springs is a very good possibility of being the team.


Three years ago, Colorado Springs would've been much more likely, but Security Service Credit Union put $4+ million towards renovations of the stadium and signed a 12-year agreement with the team. For that team to move, Security Service would probably need a significant return of their money.
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Polar Bear Fan
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Announcement delayed at least two weeks

The article mentions the Sidewinders, but at least some insiders claim the team is not the Sidewinders, and will be a surprise (see ballparkdigest.com).
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kris
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh MY god....!
This is true..!

http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/187134


Quote:

Jay Zucker insists he is not selling the Tucson Sidewinders strictly to make a profit, but for several more relevant reasons.


Quote:

What Zucker most regrets is that he couldn't find a group willing to keep the Sidewinders in Tucson and that, in 2009, Tucson will be without Pacific Coast League baseball for the first time since 1968.

After playing a lame-duck season at Tucson Electric Park in 2008, the Sidewinders are expected to relocate to Reno, Nev., in '09. The new owners, Eastern businessman Jerry Katzoff and his son, Stuart, were at TEP Monday night. Zucker will work for the Katzoffs next season but won't be part of the Reno operation.


Why Cant D-backs buy the AAA team to keep it in tuscon..?
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TAP
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If more people don't start supporting this young and exciting 1st place Diamondbacks team, might there eventually be a Vegas-Reno connection to replace the existing Phoenix-Tucson connection?

HERE are the details of the Sidewinders sale.
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Prosopis
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This sucks and really starts my day off poorly. Crying or Very sad
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dbackfanron
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to the article "The Sidewinders signed a two-year affiliation deal at the end of last season that will expire after the 2008 season". So that means the Dbacks AAA afiliate wil not necessarily be in Reno. I see Albuquerque as a more logical destination as soon as the Marlins affiliation there ends.
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shoewizard
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats just terrible. I'm sure the organization is major bummed out.
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David B
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel for the Tuscon residents here. The Beavers left Portland twice (for Spokane in the mid-70s, and for Salt Lake in the mid-90s) and the absence of Triple-A baseball here really sucked.

As for the organization being "bummed," I'm not sure that is the case. Their Triple-A team will probably either end up in a brand facility in Reno, or in Albuquerque, which has one of the nicest newer parks around. Either way, it will be an upgrade.
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dirtygary
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is effing embarrassing. Nice work, Tucson. There's a goddamn million people down there.

As for the facility, it's always been one of the top 2 or 3 in the Cactus League, so the ABQ or Reno ones can't be much better, and not enough to outweigh the location advantages.

Funny thing is, if given identical situations, and the Diamondbacks could be in either Tucson or PHX, I bet Tucson would draw better. The corporations aren't there and it'd be an overall financial loss, but attendance would be higher. Tucson just has no time or interest for minor league bullshit, but they'll sell out 50,000 seats for a losing football team in the Pac-10, and sell-out a 15,000 seat arena for twenty years
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Incognito
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So if the Sidewinders move, either to Reno or Albuquerque, where will the Dbacks hold spring training?

Personally I do NOT wish Reno on the team because I don't see the market there and it takes us 10 hours to get there versus 7 to Tucson Wink
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shoewizard
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

D backs will still Spring Train in Tucson I would assume. Unless spring training in Tucson dries up and blows away too after the White Sox leave.
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dirtygary
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shoewizard wrote:
D backs will still Spring Train in Tucson I would assume. Unless spring training in Tucson dries up and blows away too after the White Sox leave.

Here's to praying that the White Sox shag ass outta there quick and the Reds are in there to replace them.

Tucson needs to decide whether they want 6 spring training teams or none, because I can't see too many teams staying in FLA from here on out. Let the poaching wars begin!!! Phoenix and Maryvale better watch out for A's and Brewers...
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TAP
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tucson could keep Winders

There's a small chance Tucson could keep up its nearly 40-year minor league baseball affair with the Pacific Coast League, Sidewinders majority owner Jay Zucker said Tuesday.

Zucker said he is selling the franchise for $15 million to a New York-based real estate group that intends to relocate the Triple-A team to Reno, after the 2008 season.

However, if another buyer is willing to keep the Diamondbacks' Triple-A affiliate at Tucson Electric Park, he will discount the price to $13.5 million.

"There is a million and a half on the table (of his own money) to keep it in Tucson," Zucker said. "I would love to see the support Tucsonans deserve. What can Tucsonans do? Come out to the ballgames."

But SK Baseball, a Reno affilliate of Manhattan Capital that is buying the Sidewinders franchise, is moving forward to secure a site in Washoe County, Nev., for a 6,500-fixed seat stadiium that would have a capacity up to 10,000.

Jerry and Stuart Katzoff, a father and son from new York City, and major mall developer Herb Simon, a co-owner of the NBA's Indiana Pacers, are the owners of SK baseball.

The sale is pending PCL approval.
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tucsondbacksfan
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I'm one of those Tucson residents and I am PISSED!!! One of the main reasons we chose Tucson upon returning from Chile was that baseball was here. First the White Sox pull out, now the Winders.

I even heard a rumor last fall that the Rockies have a clause in their lease that at least two other MLB teams need to be here in order for them to stay (not saying that having the Rockies is all that, BUT if they go, baseball in Tucson is basically gone. Then it's just a matter of time for the Dbacks to decide that they don't want to be the only ST team in Tucson.

I'm not mad at the owner at all, however. There have been plenty, and I mean plenty, of beautiful summer nights when we have gone to a game and there were less than 3,000 (ususally less than 2000) people there. I don't blame the decision at all. I am royally pissed that the city of Tucson couldn't support something that only 30 citites in the US have.
Maybe its the location of the park? It is a pain in the rear to drive all the way down south to the bad part of town to see a game.

I woke up to find that I am the proud owner of a lime green, smelly pool and now this...
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Polar Bear Fan
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAP wrote:
Tucson could keep Winders

There's a small chance Tucson could keep up its nearly 40-year minor league baseball affair with the Pacific Coast League, Sidewinders majority owner Jay Zucker said Tuesday.

Zucker said he is selling the franchise for $15 million to a New York-based real estate group that intends to relocate the Triple-A team to Reno, after the 2008 season.

However, if another buyer is willing to keep the Diamondbacks' Triple-A affiliate at Tucson Electric Park, he will discount the price to $13.5 million.

"There is a million and a half on the table (of his own money) to keep it in Tucson," Zucker said. "I would love to see the support Tucsonans deserve. What can Tucsonans do? Come out to the ballgames."


Translation: If the Diamondbacks truly want to be Arizona's team, now would be the time to step up to the plate...

(I'd also like to see the Diamondbacks secure a California League team and put it in Prescott, assuming Prescott is willing to build the stadium they discussed last year.)
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shoewizard
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are major league franchises allowed to actually purchase minor league teams?
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Polar Bear Fan
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shoewizard wrote:
Are major league franchises allowed to actually purchase minor league teams?


Yes, and it's actually quite common, especially in the Florida State League and the Appalachian League. In fact, the Braves owned all of their teams except for the Myrtle Beach Pelicans, although this might change now that Time Warner is no longer the owner.
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EvilJuan
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polar Bear Fan wrote:
If the Diamondbacks truly want to be Arizona's team, now would be the time to step up to the plate...


Imagine! For about the price of one year of Russ Ortiz and Shawn Green, the Diamondbacks can own an entire AAA team!!! Mr. Green

All kidding aside, I hope someone at D*Back Central is plotting a way to make this happen and keep the team in Tucson...
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shoewizard
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I didn't realize that.

So.....if you are the D backs, do you sink money into a team that is at the bottom of the PCL in attendance, even last year when they had one of the best PCL teams in modern history?

I mean, if Tucson folk were not into minor league baseball last year, they never will be. I certainly have doubts it's a good investment for the team. But I am not privy to the numbers, and really don't know how much money the sidewinders lose.
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Robert S.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tucsondbacksfan wrote:
Maybe its the location of the park? It is a pain in the rear to drive all the way down south to the bad part of town to see a game.

That's where I'd put my money. That team has been loaded for the last few years.
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EvilJuan
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shoewizard wrote:
So.....if you are the D backs, do you sink money into a team that is at the bottom of the PCL in attendance, even last year when they had one of the best PCL teams in modern history?

I mean, if Tucson folk were not into minor league baseball last year, they never will be. I certainly have doubts it's a good investment for the team. But I am not privy to the numbers, and really don't know how much money the sidewinders lose.


Good points... I wasn't thinking about the business side of things; just the "home-town" discounted selling price of the team. Of course, there's a big difference between the cost to acquire the team and the cost to operate it...

Lack of knowledge moment... I suppose I've always "understood"/assumed that some portion (if not all) of a player's contract is paid by the parent ballclub; the only exception being that a minor league team might have some guys they signed, who are not linked to the parent club. (Depending upon the terms and conditions of the agreement between the farm team and the major league team.) If this is how it works, then, in a sense, the Diamondbacks are already paying some portion of the operating expenses for the Sidewinders. So the question would then reduce to (apart from the cost of acquiring the Sidewinders) how much there would be in additional operating costs to be assumed if the Diamondbacks were to purchase the team?

Another element, harder to value:

Phoenix to Tucson: 120 miles
Phoenix to Reno: 770 miles
Phoenix to Albuquerque: 470 miles

Surely, there is some benefit (in time and $$$) to having the team in Tucson, as opposed to an affiliate in Nevada or New Mexico?

Just thinkin'...
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Incognito
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EvilJuan wrote:

Lack of knowledge moment... I suppose I've always "understood"/assumed that some portion (if not all) of a player's contract is paid by the parent ballclub; the only exception being that a minor league team might have some guys they signed, who are not linked to the parent club.


EJ ...

I cannot think of one player that has been paid by the farm club owners since AJ has been playing pro ball. Every player on the teams he has been on were signed by or traded to the Dbacks. If a farm club owner could actually have a contract with a player, wouldn't that pose some potential problems for the manager of the team, who is a MLB employee, when it came time for 'showcasing' (or not) the farm owner's player? So as far as I know (and that may not be a wide berth of knowledge), the players on the teams are all indeed paid by the MLB.

Can someone (oh this is sooooo painful to say) tell me if I am wrong?
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TSWINDERS
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert S. wrote:
tucsondbacksfan wrote:
Maybe its the location of the park? It is a pain in the rear to drive all the way down south to the bad part of town to see a game.

That's where I'd put my money. That team has been loaded for the last few years.



I have been hearing that a lot from the people in Tucson and frankly it a terrible excuse. When Bham moved there, team from downtown to this unknown suburb of Hoover 25 miles away the city still supported the team and Alabama is a huge football state. I have been hearing all these excuses from the people are I am fed up with them, the people of Tucson themselves are to blame and no one else.
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shoewizard
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It takes like 10-15 minutes to get there from any point in Tucson.....ok...less than 20.

You park in the stadium parking lot. You are inside the ballpark. How much can the neighborhood affect things?
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