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Jan Brewer signs bill to prohibit ethnic studies classes

 
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tucsondbacksfan
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 11:01 pm    Post subject: Jan Brewer signs bill to prohibit ethnic studies classes Reply with quote

Wow- she is really inviting trouble. What is she thinking- the timing on this is awful. Between the two of these, we can most assuredly kiss the ASG goodbye.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100512/ap_on_re_us/us_arizona_ethnic_studies
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AZ SnakePit
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your headline is factually incorrect. It doesn't "prohibit ethnic studies classes" at all. Per the article [and as discussed previously]:
Quote:
The measure prohibits classes that advocate ethnic solidarity, that are designed primarily for students of a particular race or that promote resentment toward a certain ethnic group. It also prohibits classes that promote the overthrow of the U.S. government.

I've asked this before and failed to get an answer: which of those aspects do you feel should be part of the regular school curriculum?
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matt
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I answered you:

Matt wrote:
AZ SnakePit wrote:
matt wrote:
Horne's claim is that the classes are about that. The schools contest his claim.

Link
Quote:
In one of Romero's TUSD classrooms, in fact, a video posted for a time on the Internet Web site YouTube showed at least four separate posters of the beret-capped Ché decorating the classroom walls. And a poster of Pancho Villa. And, yes, one poster of the godfather of the revolution himself, Fidel.


If there is a problem with a specific teacher than you deal with that teacher. If the last 10 years has shown you anything "promoting the overthrow of the US government" is something that is wildly interpreted.

The rest of those things are very subjective in nature. Would teaching about Cesar Chavez promote resentment towards white people? What about the Civil War? Will discussing 9/11 promote resentment of middle eastern people?

You take that with his policy decision regarding teachers with accents and it isn't hard to see a pattern.


To summarize, the criteria for determining what is or isn't "promoting resentment" is a subjective decision made by someone with highly questionable motives.

Furthermore, regardless of the merits of this bill, it is absolutely terrible timing. A significant part of the country is seeing us a racist hicks and this doesn't help.
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xjwheelr
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, she needs to slow her roll. Regardless of whether you agree with the bill or not, this is just very bad timing.
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matt
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim, you didn't grow up here. I have no idea what your history classes were like in the UK but mine were European History and US History. Asia, Africa, Australia, and North and South America were only discussed when there was a European tie-in. Furthermore, everything is sanitized and historical figures are presented as white knights. Atrocities are causally mentioned with little detail.

When someone wants to teach history that is relevant to Mexicans, immigrants, and minorities, it usually isn't whitewashed and told from the perspective of the Europeans. Yes it can piss kids off when they learn about how things actually were back then, and it should.

They are actively preventing kids from learning about their culture because they know that when the kids learn that truth they might not like what they hear.
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AZ SnakePit
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt wrote:
To summarize, the criteria for determining what is or isn't "promoting resentment" is a subjective decision made by someone with highly questionable motives.

Quote:
Hispanic civil rights activist Dolores Huerta told students in 2006 that "Republicans hate Latinos."

I don't think there's much need for "subjectivity" to see how that kind of thing promotes resentment. And I actually think now is the perfect time to approve this, in the wake of SB 1070. It's hardly going to change anyone's opinion of Arizona, if SB 1070 didn't.
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matt
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZ SnakePit wrote:
matt wrote:
To summarize, the criteria for determining what is or isn't "promoting resentment" is a subjective decision made by someone with highly questionable motives.

Quote:
Hispanic civil rights activist Dolores Huerta told students in 2006 that "Republicans hate Latinos."

I don't think there's much need for "subjectivity" to see how that kind of thing promotes resentment. And I actually think now is the perfect time to approve this, in the wake of SB 1070. It's hardly going to change anyone's opinion of Arizona, if SB 1070 didn't.


Really? So taking detailed looks into the civil rights movements and backlashes from white america could never be interpreted as "promoting resentment"?

Live in your fantasy world where everything clear cut. I'll chose reality.
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YBC-Dog
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt wrote:
Jim, you didn't grow up here. I have no idea what your history classes were like in the UK but mine were European History and US History. Asia, Africa, Australia, and North and South America were only discussed when there was a European tie-in. Furthermore, everything is sanitized and historical figures are presented as white knights. Atrocities are causally mentioned with little detail.

When someone wants to teach history that is relevant to Mexicans, immigrants, and minorities, it usually isn't whitewashed and told from the perspective of the Europeans. Yes it can piss kids off when they learn about how things actually were back then, and it should.

They are actively preventing kids from learning about their culture because they know that when the kids learn that truth they might not like what they hear.


Very well said, Matt.

The reason we need Black History Month and Ethnic Studies classes is because almost everything else they teach through high school is white european history.

If they properly taught history so that it wasn't simply white european history, we wouldn't need ethnic studies classes in high schools.
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matt
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Things are taught like that because it is the path of least resistance. It is simple to talk about George Washington and the cherry tree or that Abe Lincoln fought the civil war to free the slaves because it won't offend people. If you start offending people, school districts won't choose your book. It also makes history courses easy to teach. You can throw any teacher in a history class. You can't do that in a specialized course.
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly. Growing up in a very white MN, I didn't learn shit about real world events until I grew up and learned on my own. To us the Indians were the bad guys, which still causes resentment on & around the reservations.
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oden wrote:
Exactly. Growing up in a very white MN, I didn't learn shit about real world events until I grew up and learned on my own. To us the Indians were the bad guys, which still causes resentment on & around the reservations.


This bill is beyond ludicrous...

Az has become the Mississippi of the 60s

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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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tucsondbacksfan
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZ SnakePit wrote:
Your headline is factually incorrect. It doesn't "prohibit ethnic studies classes" at all. Per the article [and as discussed previously]:
Quote:
The measure prohibits classes that advocate ethnic solidarity, that are designed primarily for students of a particular race or that promote resentment toward a certain ethnic group. It also prohibits classes that promote the overthrow of the U.S. government.

I've asked this before and failed to get an answer: which of those aspects do you feel should be part of the regular school curriculum?


I can't take credit or the blame for that- I took it right from the online headline source and just re-typed- please don't be so quick to criticize.
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt wrote:
Jim, you didn't grow up here. I have no idea what your history classes were like in the UK but mine were European History and US History. Asia, Africa, Australia, and North and South America were only discussed when there was a European tie-in. Furthermore, everything is sanitized and historical figures are presented as white knights. Atrocities are causally mentioned with little detail.

When someone wants to teach history that is relevant to Mexicans, immigrants, and minorities, it usually isn't whitewashed and told from the perspective of the Europeans. Yes it can piss kids off when they learn about how things actually were back then, and it should.

They are actively preventing kids from learning about their culture because they know that when the kids learn that truth they might not like what they hear.

I'm all in favor of a broad base of historical education - but from what I've read elsehwre, the Tucson school district are almost exclusively interested in teaching Hispanic history to Hispanics - it's basically a form of educational apartheid.

If you genuinely want to promote tolerance, than it should surely be Caucasian kids that are most in need of learning about and understanding Hispanic heritage and culture. Separating one group off wholesale only enhances feelings of difference and isolation. Isn't it racial profiling, just as much as SB 1070?
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/2010/05/what-would-us-history-look-like-if-it_18.html

Quote:
The Essential Dates and Events of U.S. History as Approved by the States of Arizona and Texas

1803-1848–America continues to expand westward into empty territories. American settlers make the land bloom with the help of friendly Indian tribes.

1848–Mexico, in an act of friendship following their humiliation at the Alamo by the great Republic of Texas, gives their territories to the United States.

2008–Barack Obama is elected. America is in a Constitutional crisis as Obama is unable to prove that he is a U.S. citizen.

2008-the present. Brave Americans begin joining Tea Parties and 9-12 freedom groups. Millions of their members march on Washington DC.. Freedom fighter, James David Manning, places Obama on trial in absentia for treason and sedition.
2008–Sarah Palin, mother, governor, author, actress, comedienne and role-model begins here meteoric rise to political stardom. She ushers in an era of robust, common sense approaches to political problems tempered by real American values.

2010–Barack Obama remains President although his rule is illegitimate. Brave patriots such as Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh continue to lead the people’s resistance against his tyrannical rule.
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qudjy1
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt wrote:
http://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/2010/05/what-would-us-history-look-like-if-it_18.html

Quote:
The Essential Dates and Events of U.S. History as Approved by the States of Arizona and Texas

1803-1848–America continues to expand westward into empty territories. American settlers make the land bloom with the help of friendly Indian tribes.

1848–Mexico, in an act of friendship following their humiliation at the Alamo by the great Republic of Texas, gives their territories to the United States.

2008–Barack Obama is elected. America is in a Constitutional crisis as Obama is unable to prove that he is a U.S. citizen.

2008-the present. Brave Americans begin joining Tea Parties and 9-12 freedom groups. Millions of their members march on Washington DC.. Freedom fighter, James David Manning, places Obama on trial in absentia for treason and sedition.
2008–Sarah Palin, mother, governor, author, actress, comedienne and role-model begins here meteoric rise to political stardom. She ushers in an era of robust, common sense approaches to political problems tempered by real American values.

2010–Barack Obama remains President although his rule is illegitimate. Brave patriots such as Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh continue to lead the people’s resistance against his tyrannical rule.


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

moviegeekjn wrote:
Oden wrote:
Exactly. Growing up in a very white MN, I didn't learn shit about real world events until I grew up and learned on my own. To us the Indians were the bad guys, which still causes resentment on & around the reservations.


This bill is beyond ludicrous...

Az has become the Mississippi of the 60s

Rolling Eyes

Become? I thought AZ was already the Mississippi of the West...
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